As I mentioned in my last post, one of the major problems I have been having with my new Epson 7900 has been what I described as 'scuffing' of the deep blacks on third party media. This consists of lighter, whitish, linear areas of lower ink density in the direction of printhead travel. Since I wrote that, I have come to realize that the problem exists when printing all solid colors in the Epson color driver as well as with black and white images using the ABW driver.
I contacted tech support and spoke with someone who seemed quite concerned about the issue. In fact, he requested that I send him sample prints demonstrating the problem as well as a few sheets of media for him to test. I did this, and, for consistency, also sent the actual files that I had printed from Photoshop for him to use. I will admit that it does appear that this problem does not seem to occur when I print on the Epson media that I have. It has, however, occured with every third party paper I have tried including Ilford Gold Fibre Silk, Harmon Gloss FB AL, Hahnemuhle Photo Rag Baryta, and Hahnemuhle Fine Art Baryta....all very popular media that have undergone extensive reviews on multiple websites with reportedly superb results.
I was contacted very promptly by the person I spoke with after he received the material I sent. In fact, he could easily see what the issue was on the samples that I sent, though it was not immediately apparent to him what the cause was. He did not think the problem was caused by head strikes. Now here is the part that I find disturbing. He was able to print the files that I sent on his Epson 7900 using the same media that I sent with NO evidence of scuffing at all. My immediate conclusion was that if the same paper and same file that is giving me a problem is coming out perfectly on his printer, then there must be a problem with mine....issue solved!
Needless to say, things are not so simple. He stated that this was his initial conclusion as well, but that he was told by the other agents he was conferring with that this was not the case. Their conclusion was that since the problem does not seem to occur with the two Epson papers I tried (Luster and Exhibition Fibre), that the problem must be in either the third party media or with the printer settings. He agreed with me that it wasn't the media, as it doesn't seem possible that I would have gotten four separate medias that were all defective. I had already tried changing the platen gap setting, the paper thickness setting, the high speed on/off setting, the drying time setting....in short, every setting there is, but to no avail. So I said 'fine, tell me the settings that you have your printer set to and I will set my printer to the same setting and we will see if that fixes it'....logical, right? Apparently not so!
I was told that each printer is different and that a specific setting on one printer might not yield the same effect on another (though I have always been told that the profesional printers are built to very tight tolerances). I told him that I didn't think he himself actually believed what he was telling me. There was a sort of silent aquiesence and hethen said that this is what the support staff he was working with felt was the case. They were going to send me various Epson media to see if the problem occured or could be reproduced by me on the various Epson papers. As an aside, he told me that his best guess would be to reduce the paper feed by about -2. I told him that on my 7600 I had printed on many different media and never had to change the paper feed. Nonetheless, I gave the change in paper feed a shot and, needless to say, it made no difference at all. If anything, the output looked even worse.
I understand, to some degree, where Epson is coming from in that they do not feel a need to support non-Epson papers. However, this professional grade printer is widely used to print on third party media and the media I have been using are extremely popular and certainly not obscure. If their printer could not consistently print on third party papers I doubt they would sell as many of them as they do. The fact that their printer does not cause the problem seems to indicate to me that mine does have a problem which they are not acknowledging.
However, all is not yet lost. When I discussed with the support tech that I have been having a recurrent problem with nozzle clogs despite multiple cleanings he did offer that this was not normal for a new machine and was an indication to have a service rep come out to the house. He did say that while the only objective problem that Epson would support is the nozzle clog issue at this point, if I asked the rep to do so they would be able to perform full diagnostics on the printer and make any repair required if something were to objectively test abnormal. However, they could not directly address the third party media issue despite the fact that they agreed that the prints I sent clearly demonstrated a problem.
We will see what happens when the rep comes out. I am hoping to have them come to check the machine early next week. The saga continues, but, to be honest, I am not really pleased with the way things seem to be shaping up......
Apr 22, 2009
Epson 7900 Experience - Tech Support Response
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The headpair cleaning saga continues. In talking with Epson support they acknowledge that if you select a head pair to clean then the printer takes over the process and cleans every other pair that it believes should be cleaned (regardless of my selection or intent). As if I don't have any eyes to observe a nozzle check print. What is the point of having a head pair cleaning option if I can't use it? I select it and the printer then goes off on its own wasting ink like it was a 7600. It drives me nuts.
Epson even acknowledged that their maintenence software can clean individual pairs for real.
I have updated to the April 13th firmware version so now my previous method (a real kluge) of cleaning only a head pair at time no longer works. My bad for updating the firmware.
I am not giving up on this one. I hated my 7600 because of the head cleaning and ink wasting issues and I thought Epson had solved the problem with the 7900. My bad #2.
You are not alone with scuffing problems...
I have experienced same kind of black scuffing. With three different brand new Epson 9900 printers. Actually it does not matter what media I use. Epson, hahnemuhle, omnijet, Matte papers with solid black(ABW and RGB) with >720 x 1440 resolution will exhibit this problem. I have reported this to tech support two months ago. After long struggle, dealer agreed to change my 9900 to new one. This did not solve anything, same problem.
After reading your post, I realize that this is bigger problem...
Aldberg, interestingly, I have not even tried with matte black yet, only photo black. My 7600 is set up with matte black and I have never had a problem with it. Are you experiencing scuffing with photo black on semi-gloss/gloss papers, or just with the matte? Your situation sounds even worse than mine....I am not sure why, but I am not getting scuffing on the only two Epson papers I have tried....Luster and Exhibition Fiber, but it is prominent on every third party paper I have used.
Our biggest problem seem to be in roll matte papers. But printer has made same zebra stripes on dark areas of Museo silver Rag and Ilford smooth gloss(ABW) also, but this is rare. Luster(260) prints fine and exhibition fiber I have not tested. But because striping is so random and rare for semigloss, I can use these papers. As I said earlier I have seen three different epson 9900 with same problem. I think Epson knows this problem and I have got information that they are trying fix this. Seems odd to me that printer with this kind pro review success is exhibiting this kind of quality issue. Must be related to printer manufacturing problems and I have seen only bad patch of printers. And I hope easy repair fix can solve this. Otherwise I have to consider other alternatives for fine art matte printing.Going back for good old 9800(with matte black) seems now valid option...
Has anyone with this problem tried a platen gap setting of 'standard' (not 'wide' or 'wider') and adjusting the paper thickness to '5' for thicker (300gsm +) media?
I found this eliminated this problem (perhaps the same problem) on my 7900 and 9900.
I always used a 'wide' or 'wider' setting on my old 9800 / 7880, but somehow this caused problems with both my 7900 & 9990.
Let me know if you try this.
Anon...I read your post and at first said "No Way!" as I tried just about every setting and panel change possible. But then I figured I might as well give it a try...after all, what is there to loose besides just a bit more media. Now, I swear that I tried the regular platen gap before. Then again, I can't remember for sure if I went right to the wide setting or not with these fine art papers. At any rate, I just tried it and my initial results are....GOOD. I have to say that I am totally amazed as I remember one very in depth review of the 3800 that said there was no detectable difference between standard, wide, and wider.
Well, in the morning I have to try a few more different media, but I am (amazingly) for the first time convinced that the problem MAY be solved. The tech has to come anyway as I can't unclog my green nozzle and am having frequent cleanings etc...but the biggest issue is this one. Is it really possible that I had gone right to the wide setting and that the wide setting could so royally screw up an image? I am also, at the wider setting, getting non-aligned and ghost images intermittently which I will show the tech.
Anon, I can't thank you enough. Over the last two weeks you don't know how much expensive paper, ink, time and aggravation has been spent on this and now I think there may be an answer. It is late now, but I will report back as I test a few more media!
PS, anyone out there want to try setting their 7900 platen gap to wide and printing an image with a large expanse of black to see if there is subtle, but real, scuffing or banding in the deep colors like black? If it is reproducible on other printers than it may be a glitch that somehow needs to be more broadly fixed and might also help define a problem that could be a problem for other folks out there. If anyone does, I would really love to hear if it is reproducible!
Howard
Aldberg, If you are reading this I wonder if you had been using the side platen gap setting and if using standard would fix your problem?
Howard
Nice to hear, that everything working for you now.
Platen gap was first things to try. It won't help in my case. I think we are talking little bit different problem. But I am hopeful that Epson tech can solve this my problem also. Have you tested matte papers? If you are testing then try to print on full 24" wide roll, with dark image which contains solid black. Hahnemuhle Photorag 308g is good pick because it makes very noticeable zebra stripes. But thinner and cheaper matte papers work as well. x900 are amazing and fast printers when they are working. So I am happy for you, enjoy. Aldberg
Aldberg, have you tried the platen set to 'standard' and the thickness set to '5'? I also use Photo Rag 308gsm using Matt inks and get the Zebra, but with the above settings, they disappear. However, I do get ink 'spills' occasionally on the edges, which is another problem. But please try the above if you haven't already, or maybe just try again to be sure.
Thanks for the tip.
Setup:PhotoRag, MediaType:Velvet fine art, 1440x720 FD on Highspeed off and ABW.
Platen gap Standard and paper thickness 5 produces cleanest photorag print so far. But it still makes stripes on left side of full lenght roll(44"). Changing Roll back tension have only negative effect. And lowering suction also. Increasing paper thickness from 5 to 15 also makes stripes worse.
So still, I have to use 9800 for fine art matte prints. Hopefully someone can figure this out. Btw, for thicker materials over 290g platen gap standard is real ink spiller, at least on glossy materials, so usually I have to use platen gap wide. Aldberg.
Hi Howard,
was the scuffing like you can see on this video:
http://members.upc.nl/reppel/E9900.html#video
It sounds like I have the same issue...but changing platengab is no answer.
And my issue appears definitely on epson USFA and ant other fine art paper.
Topic on Epson Forum:
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/EpsonWideFormat/message/93762
Regards
Matthijs
Hi Mattthijs...mine looked a bit different than what you are showing. My scuffing was much more subtle with the lines thinner and less easily seen but definitely there if yu looked under a light. Yours seem much wider....enough so that you can see them occuring when the printhead makes a pass on the video. Mine could not be seen that way. I sure hope you get the issue resolved.
Hey Howard,
I just purchased an Epson 7900, and am running into similar problems when printing on non-epson media (museo silver rag and hahnnemuhle fine art pearl).
I've tried speaking to reps at epson, and have been repeatedly put off... would you happen to have the contact information for the person that was at least willing to listen to you at epson?
Did you ever get this problem sorted?
Any new insights you would have would be helpful.
Thank you for your time.
Sincerely,
Shelley
Shelley....I did get it resolved when epson finally ended up replacing the printhead. I had to call them and ask for service and they sent the closest approved rep.....which at the time required sending in a guy from 300 miles away.
I just had this kind of problem first time with my 7900. I printed to Epson Premium Luster Photo Paper and had stripes on deep blacks, strongest at about RGB(2,2,2). I print from Photoshop using Epson driver, color management in Photoshop. I have used exclusively relative colorimetric conversion until now. I changed to perceptual for a few saturated files and with that setting the stripes started to appear. This seems very strange but when I printed three test patches (0,0,0/2,2,2/8,8,8) using exactly same setting but changed only perceptual to relative colorimetric, the problem disappeared. Maybe there is a problem with the color conversion?
Sounds like it might be a different problem as ultimately I noted that the stripes were really there at all colors and levels, though initially I thought it was only black.
Another thing that might help avoid stripes is also suprising, I found this a few years back with 4880. I kept having occasional problems with stripes that looked very much like roller marks but the problem showed and disappeared randomly.
After a lot of trials and wasted paper I found out that the problem was with media setting. Although I had Epson PLPP, corresponding correct media setting and Epson profile, media setting was laying too much ink on paper. The ink limit on correct Epson media setting was too close to the maximum, so the very slight change of paper surface capability to absorb ink was altered by pressure from the rollers and it caused the ink to "grow" until the paper surface. Also variation of air humidity could have been a factor. Resulting gloss differential was disturbing and looked a lot like roller marks.
Correction was to set ink density -3 to -7 on media setting. Black density didn't suffer from this because excessive ink doesn't make maximum black any darker.
This happened to me only with luster paper, I have never seen this with matte paper. Maybe on some non-Epson papers using a specific Epson media setting ink density should be tweaked...
Tommi....thanks very much. That is very useful information.
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